In this episode, seasoned construction veterans Wes and Brooks Powell give tips on proactive steps construction business owners can take during recessions to free up cash, revise payment terms, and handle staff and salary cuts.
How should you manage your contracting business differently during difficult times like these? And better, yet, how can you prepare for when things eventually get better? Wes and Brooks chime in to answer the pressing questions on everyone's mind right now.
Learn all about it here on Builder Funnel Radio.
- :39 Episode overview
- 1:23 Taking proactive steps during difficult times
- 4:00 Creative ways to free up cash
- 9:04 Review your credit lines, mortgages, and debt
- 12:50 Adjusting payment terms whenever possible
- 18:03 Prepare for the positive
- 21:17 Why you shouldn't cut your salary as a construction business owner
- 30:26 Setting yourself up for recovery
- 34:56 Spencer's takeaways
- Builder Funnel Radio's Coronavirus Episode: How You Can Be Part of The Solution AND Keep Your Pipeline Intact
- The Construction Cut: Remodeling through a Recession
Full Episode Transcription
Note: this podcast was transcribed automatically and may contain minor grammatical errors and missed words.
Welcome to Builder Funnel Radio here you'll learn about how to grow your home building, remodeling, or contracting business. If you're not growing, you're moving backwards. So we want you to always be in growth mode. This podcast has really turned into a movement and community of people who want to grow personally and professionally. Here we bring you some of the best marketing sales and business minds in the industry that you can elevate your business.
Hey guys, welcome back to Builder Funnel Radio. This is Episode 84. And another edition of the groceries. This is a special edition I normally don't bring on guests for the groceries but because of what's going on, I wanted to bring in my uncle Brooks and my dad West. So Brooks and West pal, they're joining me today and we're talking about weathering the storm.
they've seen several economic cycles, both good and bad. And so we're going to dig into what are action steps you should be taking right now as business owners to make sure you can weather this storm and set yourself up for success. So stay tuned for Episode 84 on the growth series here on builder funnel radio.
Hey guys, welcome back to builder funnel radio. This is another edition of the groceries. This is Episode 84. And this is a special edition because I'm bringing in a couple of guests which we don't normally do on the girls series. But in light of everything that's going on, wanted to get some advice and wisdom out to you guys. So I'm bringing in my uncle Brooks Powell and my dad, West Powell. So they are here with me today. How's it going, guys?
Fantastic. Thanks, man.
Yeah, and obviously right now we're in the midst of super challenging times.
difficult economic time, but also one with an unknown timeline on it.
I will specify what I would say, number one,
protect your cash is going to be some subsets to that, which we'll talk about. But you need to know exactly where you are for cash today. And you don't pay one bill unless you know how it's going to be covered. And that's the key because you're going to roll into this with whatever cash you have on board. And collections could be difficult closings could be difficult.
So, yeah, well well good let's build on that then so we got conserve cash and so I think there's a couple of angles there. There's where do you cut and what like kind of in what order and we don't have to say a specific order but but then the other side of it is like okay, what are maybe some creative ways to free up cash? So let's start with cuts. You know, what, what are some good first cuts to be making or at least first places to look at Brooks? You know, as you think about, okay, I'm trying to preserve cash. I'm in this unknown situation.
I think the thing to think about is, is look at your workflow, look at your backlog, and take a good look at what
is it all going to hang together? And do you think you know is this is this a two week blip? is a 30 day Blitz? Is it a 60 day blip? And or is it longer and which jobs do I have going which ones Could I wrap up quickly and get paid? On, whether it's the renovation or it's a home for sale that you have a contract on, and it's still solid. So I look at those and I would look at my workforce, because for most of us payroll is or one of our biggest expenses. And look at what two questions I asked are, who are the people that I want with me when I'm we get through this to rebuild? Because that's what it's going to be involving? And I don't want my second question was my second point was but the first one is, who do I want to have with me when I get through and that would maybe affect who you're going to if you have to make staffing changes? Who you would be making changes with, I guess the other point I would make, which is that we always operated on, you know, cut early. Cut D.
Make sense? Yeah. Wes, what about you any thought
I agree with all those things, I think
However, the way I look at it is that really your company is is your people. I mean, obviously, you can't get anything done without your without your people. And so that's, that's critical. So I think the first cut through you go through, okay, go through your p&l, go through all your receipts, like everything you're spending money on every month and go, what can just go now? You know, what can I just jettison off of the boat immediately to improve my cash flow? How much second improve my cash flow?
secondarily, I would agree with Brooks, you look at your team, and you go, okay, hopefully every single person on this team is someone I want to have on this team. But if there was somebody that you were on the fence on, then that might be the time if it you know, to make that decision and make that decision sooner rather than later. One thing I'm not a fan of is you see this a lot in big companies. They do. Rolling layoffs, we're gonna lay off so many people and we're gonna lay off so many more people and then, you know, everybody's living in fear from week to week, what's what's going to happen with my job? Yeah, productivity goes down. environment, everyone's spending time talking. The few times that we've had to do layoffs in the past I've done what Brooks has said, which is you if you're going to have to cut and it's a hard decision, and that's why you have to tough position because someone has to make that that decision. You say, okay, I've looked at the landscape. I think this is going to last for this amount of time, in order to conserve my cash and keep the most people working possible. I have to cut and lay out this many people. I'm going to do this once. And I've had that conversation with the team and said, guess what, we're cutting once. And so and this is, this is how it's gonna work. And man, this sucks, okay, but we're going to do it. You We're gonna make this as easy as possible for the folks that aren't going to be able to stay. But sometimes you have to cut off your leg in order to save the body. And that's that's what happens. It's a really tough business situation. But make all those moves pretty quickly. Don't have don't desert, don't spend weeks and weeks going, Oh, you know, I don't want to make this decision. All you're doing is burning cash. I would. I would make that decision in a week. If you're listening to this today. And you're trying to figure out what to do. within seven days, you can figure out what you need to do and do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously super, you know, tough decisions to make and like your point is a good one is just thinking about, hey, like, how can we get through this as a team and have the most people still working and keep the business alive? You know, when you think about that as the alternative, like, you've got to make the decisions. I was thinking about kind of what you guys were saying there in terms of, you know, so looking at your current projects and your inflows of cash and what's in your backlog. So that was kind of that first step like, what do I anticipate going through all the line items on the p&l looking at those expenses, obviously, non essentials, cut those immediately. And then you're looking at kind of those, you know, payroll type personnel decisions, and potentially other big expenditures and other categories. Probably look at two other things right away. One would be, what credit lines do I have available to me? You know, and hopefully everybody has some form of a credit line, unsecured or secured, and that that they can put that and decide that you know, that's part of your cash buffer. Potentially. So I think you got to look at that. And then I think the other thing you got to look at is your mortgages, or any any debt that you owe, and what is the debt payment, and review all your documents and see what happens if you get to the situation where you're not gonna be able to make that payment. And understand the ramifications of that. Have Any thoughts on
I do is, I've strongly believe is that keep your cash, and you can fight about it with your lender. If you give them your cash, there's nothing to fight about. And you may need your cash to survive. So going into forbearance, going into default, you can dig your way out of that, if you survive. And if you don't have the cash to do that, then it didn't matter anyway. So it's a worthwhile fight. I wouldn't have said that in 2008. And in that situation, we paid our bags for three years. And then when we were out of gas And we decided to priority with him. It's a terrible situation to be in. So I've totally changed my philosophy on that. And to go to West Point, which is no, no what you've agreed to, and know what the, you know what the ramifications are of not paying. And in good times, you know, hopefully you have a line of credit you put on your house or put on your business that is available. In in 2008, we actually went to we took the step, we drew down all of our lines of credit early and moves the cash so that we would have it to draw on because sometimes lines of credit was to get taken away. Oh, absolutely. That was that was a pretty common event in Oh 809. Yeah, certainly here in our area where I know, an H back contractor who was golfing with his banker, banker said, Oh, and I just want to let you know what we're booked your line of credit.
Unknown Speaker 12:02
Yeah, I would not say.
I know. Yeah.
It was even have a driver.
But you know, how brittle is that? You know, so they can get away
right now in this kind of this current crisis, which is if you don't have a line of credit, that's fine. You're not going to get one today? No, most likely not unless you can get an SBA loan or something like that. But it's probably not going to be in time if you're running really thin. So let's go to what things can I not pay? What mortgages Can I not pay? And what things can I do to live to fight another day? Yeah, okay, out here, here where you are with your employees, which are the life of your business, which are going to produce the work so you can get paid. So, you know, obviously the time just to put these things in place, lines of credit and that sort of things when things are good, but let's, let's assume, you know, pay it It's kind of right now it's too late, you know, are there other? Are there creative ways or creative angles to go about freeing up cash? You know, so that you've got that on hand if you hadn't taken some of those steps prior. But one thing you can do, I guess, it will always paid on time. But you've certainly seen that in other other recessions where that, you know, vendors go to late pay. So, essentially, if you think about it, especially large companies tend to do this. And what they'll do is they'll simply, instead of paying according to the terms of their agreement, paying in 10 days or 30 days, they'll say, Well, I'm gonna pay you, I'm gonna pay you in 120 days. So if you think about what that does, by simply saying, I'm going to pay you but I'm not going to pay you on the terms that we agreed on here. The new terms that I'd like to pay you on then but you are going to get paid by not paying it by extending an extra two months, you've picked up essentially two months worth of cash flow. And that cash remains with you. And so that can sometimes create that liquidity that you need within the business in order to keep it afloat. So, and you can work that out with your vendors many times, you can simply go to them and say, hey, guess what, we're all in this boat together, I absolutely am going to pay you I want to pay you. That's my goal. What I need is I need different terms. And they're gonna go well, I guess my choices, I don't get paid at all, or I get paid 120 days, and they're gonna go with 120 days all day. And even if you say, Hey, I'll pay you 25% every month overall, I'll get to 100% and 120 days, but it shows intent shows willingness. And it's the same with your your lenders. If If, if the bank says hey, you know, you're not gonna pay me and you say, Hey, I'm willing to take you I do I just need different terms. And that's what you're all you're all you're looking for is you're looking for more runway. You know, you don't land as 747 on a postage stamp. You landed on a big long runway and stuff for your business. You just need more runway. Yeah, that's good advice. So basically, work with terms, you know, negotiate terms, where you can look at all those agreements you have in place. Yeah, Brooks, anything else coming to mind in terms of, you know, creative ways or just different ways to free up cash be free? I think one, be willing to ask, you know, because if you're, you know, for us early on, it's like, oh, we always pay on the tans we never pay late, you know, well, that, like Wes said, those terms go out the door and you in my talking to those other businesses that you work with. They'll give you the terms. They will so I think definitely pursue that quickly. Definitely pursue with any lenders. You have. Like, hey, I need new terms, especially in this environment where everybody's suffering from the same effect. There's a lot more liquidity in the market than there was in Oh, wait, oh nine. So money's flooding the market. So money will be available. So it's not a constriction of capital. I'm sorry, birds doing good. Oh, I was just gonna say some of you mentioned that about money, plenty. So in this particular case, for people that aren't aware of the government programs that are coming down for small businesses, we're just talking about this earlier today, but you've probably heard of it by now. But make sure that you have explored all the government programs for loans, forgivable loans and things like that are to keep your company afloat during these tough times. So government assistance is my point. There may be federal. So there's going to be government federal assistance for unemployment, for health benefits. There's going to be small business association of the seven eight program. So and you're banker if you have a banker, anybody bank with him that's going to be available to you so and they're going to want to push this money through because they're getting paid along fees to push it through and a lot of it's going to be forgivable. So that's
Unknown Speaker 17:15
just your buying time.
Unknown Speaker 17:17
Yeah, yeah. Just try it like you said, extending the runway, you know, cuz you don't know where the, you know how much runway you need, which is one of the challenging parts of think of the situations is gone. Okay. You know, we can all guess all we want but we don't know if it's three months later. You know, you need as much runway as you can get your hands on, you know, rollout as much asphalt as you can get your hands on what you do. And and you'll put when you when we get through to the other side, you're going to make a list the whole way through this and say, Okay, what are all the things that I wasn't ready for this time? I'm going to get those fixed. And so we get another situation where there's the money market locks up or sales dry up. You know, yeah, Australia. But it's not as stressful as today. Yeah. So as you're thinking about building this runway,
Unknown Speaker 18:07
you know, how do you
how do you also, I guess, balance that with trying to remain in a strong position for when things start to turn for the positive? Or, or do you just operate from
and not necessarily look too much to that,
depending on how much cash you have, you know, depends if you're, you're sitting on a big pile of cash or like there's going to be opportunities everywhere, you know, there's going to be opportunities to acquire properties you're going to be opportunity to buy lots will be because somebody else was not ready. But if you're not sitting on a big pile of cash, then you're in triage the whole time, which is, you may just say my goal is to come out of this, still standing with as many of my employees as I have, so at least I can continue to work because you will get through this and there's work on the aside, it's just it's a little bit locked up right now. Whereas previous recessions, there might have not been work for three, four or five years. And being in a construction business, you just have to kind of work your way through that slowly. Whereas this is going to be probably much more sharp, much more painful quickly, but then it'll be over. And I think it's important to remember that whatever it looks like today, good or bad, that that never lasts. So good times, never last bad times number last either, everything is going to change. So you can kind of keep that in the back of your mind. Because sometimes when we're down in the weeds, and it just everything sucks, and, you know, it's just bad news and bad news and bad news. You have to remind yourself, okay, that's fine. That's, that's today, but this is going to change. And so my goal is to get this out in any way that I can because I want to be around when times do change, and so as much as you can Which is really difficult, you know, it can be super stressful and really tough. And, but you want to keep your eyes up, keep your cool, you know, be scanning the horizon and going, Okay, I'm working on my day to day problems right now. And that may take up 95% of my bandwidth, but 5% of my time, I gotta look out ahead and go, okay, what's this gonna look like on the other side?
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So, one more question around kind of cuts and and that side and then let's flip to like setting up for recovery and kind of proactive steps that you can take. But I'm curious, you know, you guys said, you know, like, cut quickly cut deep. How do you think about you know, deciding around taking a salary cut as an owner versus, you know, maybe personnel decisions weighing those or just the first one because I know we had a conversation earlier just around salary cuts, and that sort of thing or to try to do that for team or do you just go go all the way I'm just curious to get your perspective. On if there's a time in a place or if it's just totally situationally dependent, West, if you have any thoughts around
Unknown Speaker 22:07
that's because I've tried it different ways, different hard times. Yeah. There's the, you know, great recession and then there is the downturn, you know what it means there's always a downturn to deal with. So I would say, generally, this and once again, it's just a general statement. I would rather have to if I have to make cuts and salaries, I'd rather cut an entire person and not cut everybody a percentage, okay, because everyone who is with you is built their life around this particular paycheck. And so it's really tough for them to keep their morale up and keep charging hard at work and You're going to be asking more of them, you know, I mean, there's just all these things that they're asked to do. Plus, you're paying them less. And that's really, really hard. And you're paying everybody on the team last. So I don't, I don't recommend that. I would rather say, let's try to do this with fewer people. But everyone who remains is going to get paid the same as what they're getting paid for. I think the other thing too, is I think you asked about, you know, would you cut your own salary? So I've tried that. I mean, you know, when we had the great recession, I didn't take a paycheck for, I don't know, three or four years. And everyone else got paid. And I don't think that's healthy either, either. And Brooks and I've had lots and lots of conversations about this over the years and in debates, and I would have to say I would agree with Brooks. Now I think if as as the head of the machine, you have to be okay. You know, if you're not okay, then how can you support it? Everybody else on the team, how can you keep the business going? If you're really wondering how you're going to make ends meet, as well. So I would plus it also masks problems within the organization. I think this has also been a point that Brooks and I have discussed before, which is if you if you make the business work on the fact that you're not making any money, the business is not working.
Unknown Speaker 24:27
So. So I would recommend, you know, sure, you could modify your salary a little bit if you wanted to, you know, if you're okay, well, I, but my experience is that most remodelers and most builders, you know, in most small business owners, for the most part, are not taking huge amounts of money out of their business. You know, I think that's an illusion that, that people think about business owners they take huge amounts of money out of their business they don't they usually take a salary That fits within what their responsibilities are. And then if they make any extra money at the end of the year, net profit, lots of times, they're putting that right back into the business. So, so I think cutting your own salary lots of times, there isn't a whole bunch to cut anyway. So yeah, I would, I would definitely, as Wes knows, I believe in, you know, someone's got to run the company, and you have to pay someone to do that. And so if you happen to be fulfilling that role, you'd have to pay someone to do that. And then the money gets made at the end of the year, that's your return on investment for owning the business. And during tough times, maybe, you know, you're not gonna make any money for for this year or next year as you dig your way out. But that's hopefully that's what capital your cash reserves are for and your equity in the company and there's equity in the company. And that's what takes the hit. As soon as you say that what I'm doing is not worth anything. I think that's a mistake, because you're going to be in there swinging as hard as you can to make this Work, if anything, you should be getting paid more, because you're working twice as hard and it's not going to happen. You're not going to get paid more. But yeah, if you want to take your salary a little bit or something that's gonna make the difference. look better to write a personal check from your home checkbook and say I'm contributing more capital to this business, because I believe in it, and from that I'll pay myself a salary because that's the really, that's the gut check. If you're not willing to, to write a check, personally into your business and say, Hey, I think this is worth another 50 grand because I think it's going to go maybe the business, you know, isn't going to make it. It's not well capitalized enough. So definitely, we have great gut check. Yeah, Jacqueline. I like that point, though. You do have to pay somebody to do it. And I guess that I would feel would support that idea of not cutting your employees paycheck. But instead of cutting personnel if you absolutely have to train as they they have to produce the work. And their their work is valuable. Actually, you know, you got to value that work while they're there.
Yeah, more demotivating things is to in tough times to cut people salary, you know better to say, Hey, you know what we're selling these extra trucks and people are doubling up in a band and, you know,
we can't afford 10 bands, we can afford five bands, but I can keep everybody your key. Your key people that are putting installing the work, that's who you want, you know, you can you can lease a van next month, you know, cut your non personnel expenses first. And then and only after that, if that isn't making it work, and do that quickly, and then then you'll have to make other decisions. And if especially for listeners out there, if they've got leased space, you know, there's a lot of flexibility if you've got a lease payment on some retail space or where you had your office and stuff. plenty of opportunities to go Without because there's plenty of cash in the system. And landlord, you're just saying, yep. And we'll kick the can for a year. And, you know, we'll give you a four month freedom or whatever this. So you're anything where you have a monthly obligation, you got to go look at that and ask, you know, yeah, you need your cell phones, you need your internet. You need your computers you need, you need your people. And I guess I gotta have something to drive to work in. That's your machine runner. You know, you can operate out of your house, you can operate out of your truck, you can get really lean really fast. Yeah, yeah. Cuz I think, you know, during good times, you tend to build up a comfort level with certain things or you get accustomed to certain things. And yeah, you know, if we all think back to when you started it, you know, and you're really scrapping it, you know, you just adopt that scrappy mentality again, and you can get creative and find ways to accomplish things in a different way. So I think those are good points, and I really Man really good points around. I think salaries are the philosophy of cutting salaries or just making the cut all the way. Obviously you guys advocate for, hey, just you have to make a cut, make all the way cuts so that the people that are so their morale is higher, you know, then it would be and then you got to take care of yourself as well. And that, like anybody that is working, whether it's the owner or an employee is getting paid and they're getting paid for that position and what the value of that position is. So I think it is it I remember you get on the plane, which no one's getting on a plane right now. But when you when you're like a plane and they do the the announcements at the beginning, they always say, you know, if a loss of air pressure occurs in the cabin, and air mass is going to drop down. Put a mask on your own face first before helping somebody else. And that's really what you're doing. As a business owner. You have to make sure you've got enough oxygen to operate so you can help Everybody else on the team in business, because your team members are gonna have lots of other problems besides just what's going on at work at your business. So how a significant other a partner that's like there might have lost their job, they're struggling. So it's going to take a lot more of emotional bandwidth besides just financial bandwidth to support the team, because everyone's still struggling. Yeah. Yeah, good points. So let's, let's wrap up with just any final thoughts around what are some steps that you can take to set yourself up for recovery, positive steps that you can be taken aside from, like, the triage things, the things that you're doing to just survive? Are there any things that stand out to you guys, as you think back? You know, coming out of these down cycles or tough times, West, anything, come into my head, say number one, you know, keep your cool, keep your cool as much as you can throughout the whole process and keep your eyes up and coming Horizon don't become so myopic, and myopic and focused on your own issues that you can't scan the landscape for what are going to be upcoming opportunities and dangers as well. So I think those two things and we talked about conserve your cash, because there will be other opportunities that come up. So and once again, just remember, nothing's, nothing's forever. So
Unknown Speaker 31:27
I would I would add to that
Unknown Speaker 31:30
is, this will be over before you think it's over. So you've got to be, you know, head up eyes, looking for opportunities, because all of a sudden, that will be done and you're like, Oh, I still felt like it was still going on. So you have to be thinking, okay. You'll come out of it sooner than you think. And you'll miss opportunities. I know. I definitely missed opportunities where like, somebody would buy a piece of land and it was comments, recession. What do you think in your 12 months later, it was over and it's like, why not? I figured out how to buy that land, you know, because because I had my head down, and I was just, you know, grinding away. And so I would say, yeah, it will be over sooner than you think. So be looking for opportunities, you know, have your ears open, listening for opportunities, because there'll be some other person that's folded. That's going to create opportunity for you because you're up and running. And there might be jobs that become available that someone else couldn't perform, might be land opportunities. We made we made very good money during the last recession, finishing houses and gone back to banks. Well, that wasn't a business. You know. There was for three years, you know, we did and we did that business, but it wasn't something I would have even thought of ever doing. So yeah, getting yourself ready for coming out of it is the right people. Who do you want to have on your team if you have to make cuts, who are those people that are committed? Like Wes said, which is You want to keep those people, and those are the people that you like. And you know, as a leader, you've got to be beating the drum that like, you know, we're coming through this, we're gonna make it. And we're gonna keep on going. Everybody listened for ideas and opportunities, and you'll find your team members will come in, hey, I've heard about this. What do you think? And we're straight.
Yeah, that's good advice. And I think you can only do that if you do what you know, you were saying last is you got to be calm enough and cool enough so that you can see those opportunities and be looking, you know, because you get so worked up about it. And then you're just heading the sand and you're just trying to solve all your problems, which you do need to do, but if you forget the other piece, then you'll be so late to the you know, the rebound that you'll miss a ton of. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
You mean this is your chance to be a leader and you lead your team, lead your company, lead your community, in that, you know, hey, This is how we're going to work our way through it. I mean, you may have to go home at night and just lay down in a dark room for an hour but or go for a run or go for a walk or get out or do something. You know, make sure you keep exercising and keep yourself healthy. And then give yourself some purchasing some space to think you say I'm gonna sit and think for half an hour. Yeah, right not to let your mind race on the problems but just open to the to the solutions that will come to you. Absolutely, yeah. Cool. Well, well said guys. And yeah, thanks for hopping on this one and sharing your your wisdom and advice. It's definitely not a comfortable time. It's not a fun time. But I always tend to want to just look at what are the proactive steps we can take? Yeah, this was super helpful. Thanks for joining me today.
Unknown Speaker 34:52
Sure, no problem.
Hey, guys, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Wes and Brooks again, No, it's not a super fun thing to be thinking about and talking about. But I think it's important to be proactive. So I'll pull out a few takeaways, some big things that I heard from today's conversation. The first one was cut quickly and cut deep. I think Brooks mentioned that early. I think, you know, that's a great thing to think about, you know, go through all those line items, see where you need to make cuts, especially non essentials, you know, get creative, cut back, explore terms with anything that you have going on, talk to lenders, you know, just work on negotiating those things that you can to free up cash flow. I think the conversation around cutting on the personnel side was really interesting. That was kind of my second takeaway was, don't make the like salary adjustments or cuts like, that just dampens the mood for people that are within the company. So cutting personnel is a really tough decision. It's not a fun decision. But if you have to do it, go all the way and then for the people that are On the team, and remaining, I boost morale and say, Hey, we're going to get this, you know, get through this together. So I think that was a really big takeaway. And then the final note really was, Hey, you got to stay cool, calm and collected, and be looking for opportunities. So even if 98% of your time 95% of your time is just trudging, trying to get through this weathering the storm, the other 5% or just even in the evenings, like you gotta have eyes up looking for opportunities, because as Brooks was just saying, like, it's gonna be over before you know it. We always anticipate, oh my gosh, this could last forever. Obviously, good times last and then they don't and then bad times last and then they don't and so you've got to have those eyes up looking for those opportunities. So I think there were a lot of takeaways from today. Those were three that stood out to me. Again, I hope this was a helpful episode, an action oriented episode for you guys. Start making moves, make some decisions. Keep your eyes up, and we'll get through this together. Other thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time on builder funnel radio.
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai